Every Thursday here at FightHype, boxing fans gather around my bulbous, bulging sack in anticipation of an Ol’ Faithful money shot of gooey, salty truth. This Thursday is no different. So, put your goggles on and cinch up your plastic poncho, here it comes. This week, we have comments/questions regarding Fury-Joshua and another round of debating the weight of Canelo Alvarez’s body of work.
Fury vs. Joshua…A (way too) Early Look
Hey Paul.
So, it looks like Tyson Fury-Anthony Joshua is actually going to happen and I guess a two-fight deal is being made to ensure a rematch. I know it’s way too early to start dishing out predictions, but I’m going to ask you to do it anyway. Who ya got, Mags?
– Damon
Hey Damon. You’re right about it being too early. There’s a chance that the whole thing could fall apart if they can’t get settled on a venue or date within 30 days. Two signed contracts mean a lot, but they’re no guarantee. A lot could happen. I think everything WILL come through, but I never fully trust any of these deals until the fighters are actually in the ring.
But, if they do fight in June/July…
Fury is a more savvy, better-skilled fighter than Joshua, but Joshua has a physicality and athleticism that is hard to overcome when applied with some focus. It’s really going to come down to who brings the better game plan and, more importantly, who can bring the focus to maintain that game plan. Maybe I’m being too harsh on Fury, but I never take it for granted that he’s going to come into a fight fit and focused. That’s why, right now, if you held a gun to my head, months away from the actual fight, I’m going to pick Joshua. There’s a lot that could fall into place to facilitate an AJ win. Fury could lose focus in training and come into the fight in less-than-optimal condition. He could be mentally “off” on fight night. He could also be doing everything right and simply run into a big shot from the very heavy-handed Joshua. I guess you could say the same of Joshua- if he’s out of shape, lapsing in focus, or runs into something big, he could lose. But I think Joshua has a greater capacity to make Fury pay for a mistake than vice versa. And I think Fury has a Greater capacity for blowing it. Again, though, this is WAY too far in advance and I reserve the right to totally change my take on this as fight night approaches.
Canelo’s Resume: Part 2
(Carried over from last week’s Mail Sack column)
“but I defy you to point me to any active fighter (other than Manny Pacquiao) who has a deeper, more complex body of work right now”.
Shawn Porter other than Paq has the best body of work in boxing right now. Most if not all of the upper talent were live talent when he fought them. Then there is Erislandy Lara, Danny Garcia with the best and believe it or not Adrien Broner. They are not just OLD names and soft touches on their resumes like Canelo’s. Canelo can fight, dont think I’m hating because I’m pointing out facts. We repeat what we hear others say and it becomes law, without really taking a look. He signed to fight so CALLED much avoided Paul Williams after he was easily beaten by Lara, when they cheated Lara. Lara put down the blueprint on how to beat Paul and showed all of his deficiencies.
“That canceled fight led to Victor Ortiz as a substitute and then Josesito Lopez when Lopez upset Ortiz. He also signed on to fight James Kirkland when Kirkland was, indeed, a raging beast and very much acknowledged as such”.
So there were only welterweight options for Canelo to fight, there were no 154 guys is what you want me to believe, other than Kirkland. He was exciting but NEVER UPPER tier boxing wise. Cotto beat a one-legged old fighter in Martinez and you know it, I can’t believe you even pointed that out. Martinez retired after that fight and just came out of retirement. I will conclude again with this, Canelo’s resume is ALL AN OPTICAL ILLUSION.
— Alfie Williams
Hey Alfie.
You’re sticking to your guns, but those guns just aren’t loaded.
I love Shawn Porter, but he’s lost to almost every next-level fighter he’s fought and should’ve lost to Ugas. Same deal with Danny Garcia and BIG TIME with Adrien Broner. I guess I should’ve specified “deeper, more complex WINNING body of work.” I mean, if we’re just measuring name value, there are many journeymen and club fighters who’ve faced tons of great fighters, in losing efforts. What I’m talking about with Canelo is someone who has faced so many diverse styles and mindsets and skill sets. From boxers to brawlers to counter-punchers to bangers; from straight-up-and-down offensive machines to slick southpaws. Canelo has faced a bit of everything and has not only beaten them all, but has improved with just about every outing.
Paul Williams was not “so-called avoided,” he was TRULY avoided. I was covering the scene at the time. I know how hard it was for the guy to get anyone of note to take his calls. The reason Williams took the Erislandy Lara fight in the first place was because he had no other main stage options. Your assertion that Lara “put down the blueprint on how to beat Paul and showed all of his deficiencies” is simply not an accurate reading of what happened. What Lara did to Williams was something only Lara could do, and the world knew it. The “blueprint” was being a supremely skilled, crafty fighter. The “blueprint” was to be Erislandy Lara.
And Lara’s status as a last resort opponent because of his degree of difficulty, plus his ability to deal with Williams so completely, just makes a 23-year-old Canelo’s decision to pursue a fight with him all the more impressive. And, yeah, a 21, 22-year-old Canelo reaching out to Williams for a fight was damn ballsy as well.
You’re engaging in a lot of after-the-fact, revisionist history. You have to judge a fighter on who they faced, WHEN they faced them. You can’t go back and judge Canelo because, years later, an opponent became diminished.
I think your dismissal of Cotto is a desperate bid to diminish Canelo’s win over him. Sergio Martinez’s legs had nothing to do with that loss. That’s a horrible misreading of that fight. Cotto won that fight by taking advantage of a major weakness Martinez had in defending against the left hook. That weakness was something Julio Cesar Chavez Sr. was desperately trying to get Julio Jr. to focus on (to no avail) when he fought Martinez. You’re showing real disrespect to an outstanding fighter in Cotto who worked his ass off to take advantage of an exploitable weakness– and only because you’re so eager to diminish Canelo. Cotto was the lineal champ at the time Canelo beat him– the man who beat the man who beat the man– and regarded as no worse than the second best middleweight in the world.
As for Kirkland, if you were paying attention at the time, the guy was extremely high on everyone’s list and a consensus “next big thing.” He was regarded as “for real” by everyone and he was still getting some of that recognition when Canelo tried to put together a bout the first time around. It’s only in retrospect, when someone is looking to diminish Canelo, that Kirkland suddenly becomes a second tier no-hoper. At the time when it mattered, nobody thought that about Kirkland.
So…Alvarez beats, arguably, the top junior middleweights at the time, the lineal middleweight champ, the no. 1 ranked middleweight, the no. 1 ranked super middleweight, a top 3 ranked light heavyweight champ, 16 reigning or past world champs, 4 probable Hall of Famers– all before his 31st birthday…and that’s a fraudulent legacy? That’s some fucking optical illusion!
As I said, every star has some gimmes and all matchmakers look for favorable matches for their fighters. Canelo has had his share of them. But he’s also unique in having actually pursued challenges and uncomfortable stylistic matchups when he absolutely did NOT have to. His record stands out. It’s just that some critics are deeply, deeply invested into diminishing him for whatever reason. Some fighters in some eyes will NEVER get the respect they deserve. Every obstacle they hurdle becomes meaningless after the fact, every fighter they beat– even those they were accused of ducking– becomes a bum after beaten. That’s just how it is for some fighters. But reality is reality and history has a tendency to pave over the potholes gouged unfairly into the road. Fair-minded insight has a longer shelf life than prejudice.
Got a question (or hate mail) for Magno’s Bulging Mail Sack? The best of the best gets included in the weekly mailbag segment right here at FightHype. Send your stuff here: paulmagno@theboxingtribune.com.